Hyper-In-Active

Sum Ergo Sum

No One Will Ever Know That

Awareness is the only End State
Everything is the forerunner of Awareness
Awareness is of Reality
as waves are of water
Reality will never be known
as my skin will never know the sun
There is just this warmth

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11 responses to “No One Will Ever Know That

  1. Hariod Brawn 2014/10/16 at 18:38

    Niklas, you say ‘Everything is the forerunner of awareness.’ And I can see your point. On the other hand, according to orthodox canonical texts, the Buddha reputedly said ‘Mind is the forerunner of all things.’ I wonder, might one way of reconciling the two come in the expression ‘All things, awareness and mind are undifferentiated.’

    • Niklas 2014/11/06 at 23:12

      Yes, I’m just playing w the wording. Awareness is of all things mind re-presents in minds way. Since mind is limited to what sense/perception can re-present, and how, that is what can be there. So yes, same same but different. Everything in awareness is realiteten, but only as re-presentations, The exception being thoughts which are always in original form and independent of objective reality. That is why they are so private and subjective. One could say thoughts are the only unfiltered reality while being the only non-reality. That is the core paradox in neti neti and nondualism. Its like the terrain/map metaphor inverted. Reality is a map we’re standing on, holding a piece of nonsubstantial terrain to guide us.

      • Hariod Brawn 2014/11/06 at 23:40

        Thanks Niklas; I get all that representationalist stuff etc. – the ‘stuff’ of so-called ‘consciousness’. Though my question was something rather different i.e. would you agree with the statement that β€˜All things, awareness and mind are undifferentiated.’?

        In other words, do you see awareness as something separate to what are apparently objective phenomena, that is, what we take to be external stuff and what we take to be internal mind representations?

      • Niklas 2014/11/06 at 23:58

        No not separate. That puts the ghost into the machine again. Who would have that awareness? Awareness could maybe be pictured as an end-state and the way “stuff” appears there, in relation to our bodies that carries it, gives rise to the user illusion. At least that is part of the puzzle. I’m looking into other parts and I have some ideas, mainly about the role language play and in particular deicit relations of Me-You, Here-There and Now-Then.

      • Hariod Brawn 2014/11/07 at 00:04

        Thanks Niklas; can I ask one last question here? What would your response be to this statement:

        The world and consciousness both exist and are identical

      • Niklas 2014/11/07 at 00:24

        Both exist. Not identical.
        But I guess someone could use that as a trick question so I would never argue about it. I’ve come across a couple of those and then I go into Mu-mode πŸ˜‰
        But if not, if both exist in their own right, they cannot be identical. If they indeed are identical, there is just one. But that’ s just logic. A bigger nut to crack is the definition of the words. I do not subscribe to the concept of “universal consciousness” or “all is consciousness”. Not because it’s true/false, but because it doesn’t help my understanding one bit. To me that is mystifying what is essentially simple. So simple we do not accept it. So Self wants to make it more interesting and special. Self always wants to expand.
        Thanks for feedback.

      • Hariod Brawn 2014/11/07 at 00:37

        Not a trick question Niklas. I don’t play games like that. I am suggesting a paradox, or rather, what the mind takes to be a paradox. So I am not positing that ‘all is consciousness’ – that’s a kind of Transcendental Idealism that is itself a trick (see: Neo-Advaita charlatans).

        You say ‘Both exist. Not identical.’

        That implies a duality does it not?

        By the way, what does Mu-mode mean – mute?

      • Niklas 2014/11/07 at 01:32

        Sorry, I didn’t mean you tried to trick me. The duality thing is on the other hand always tricky.
        Even if I’m all over the place, zen is my go-to reference, and the mahayanas are very strict with the emptiness doctrine and I agree with it. If duality exists, then nonduality contains it. Nonduality cannot exclude anything from being part of everything because that would be dualism, right? Thing is, thought can only work with duality so as soon as I write anything, it will be dualistic. We cannot think outside of separation. Reality comes in many appearent forms in constant change. They are different but not separate. The difference is obvious, while separation is physically impossible since we learned about quantum stuff and energy as matter.
        So if you say “consciousness IS the world” I might say “tell me about the weather in Uruguay”, just to be a wise a**.
        In reality, I would just be fooling myself trying to win an argument.
        Mu is from the zen koan where Master Joshu is asked: does a dog have buddhanature? Knowing dualistic mind and arguments, Joshu says Mu. That is to negate the question as being wrong, misguided or irrelevant.
        I guess I’m a bit radical, but to me there are no charlatans. Just humans that makes sounds and moves about. They are me and I am them, we just appear different, sound different and does differently. Just like me, they don’t choose their behavior.

      • Niklas 2014/11/07 at 01:34

        There are paradoxes but that ‘ s not a paradox. There are problems but that is not a problem.

      • Hariod Brawn 2014/11/07 at 01:53

        I don’t think we’re quite meeting here Niklas, though never mind, I appreciate your engagement nonetheless – thank you. By the way, did you get the invitation from the people at http://nonsymbolic.org/ for the online presentation on Sunday? Oh, and of course – the Mu Koan – I’d forgotten.

      • Niklas 2014/11/07 at 07:11

        Hmmm, could be I was just way to sleepy or my english skills failed me. Btw I stopped by your website. It was beautiful

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